Lend A Hand

[David]

Your point about trying to figure out the Warren line is totally right! If anyone knows, solidly who Grams' grandmother is, then could you please help me out. I don't think it was ever explicitly said in the show, but just in case it was, for continuity reasons I want to be as close as possible. She's featuing in my fic soon, and I want as correct as a name as possible.

[Temporal Death]

Grams' grandmother would be P. Baxter's mother. It was never stated, so go ahead and create your own.

And Tash, as I've said, this is why sex should never be spiritual.

[Terry]

Aug 31, 2009 4:10:38 GMT Reyn said:

I'd just like to say - figuring out the Warren witch line and what was and wasn't established in season 1 is a pain in the neck.

The charmed wiki helps, but they don't reference, so I have no idea where all their information comes from, and when it was established.

Also - Pardon my past is weird. Past Piper (who was the warren witch) was married to Past Dan and Past Leo was her lover. Which means that when Present Piper was dating Dan she was getting it on with the soul of her great grandfather. And she ended up being married to and having babies with the soul of her great grandmother's lover. Ick.

Lol Honey, sorry, but that was just sick! Aha.

Sept 1, 2009 15:22:48 GMT David said:

Your point about trying to figure out the Warren line is totally right! If anyone knows, solidly who Grams' grandmother is, then could you please help me out. I don't think it was ever explicitly said in the show, but just in case it was, for continuity reasons I want to be as close as possible. She's featuing in my fic soon, and I want as correct as a name as possible.

Anyway. To help you guys out: it was plain and simply never stated who P. Baxter's (that's Penny's mother) own mother actually was. I don't think her name is visible on the family tree, and trust me, I've studied that screen cap quite a few times.

The only known Warren line folks besides the sisters, their mom and Grams are
- the Aunt Phoebe that Patty named her third daughter after;
- the three cousins: P. Russell, P. Bowen, P. Baxter;
- the Aunt Pearl who owned the couch in the attic;
- the great-great-great-(and-so-on-)aunt Brianna (the one who banished the Lord of the War's sword);
- the witches summoned for the Source's vanquish: Astrid, Helena, Laura & Grace;
- found out about in Baby's First Demon when the girls are trying to find a name from the family tree for Wyatt: Herbert, Clarence and Milton -- those are male, so probably not witches but merely husbands, considering the family history ;
- and then the last three: Prudence, Melinda and Charlotte Warren.

Incidentally, David, on the family tree, Grams happens to have a brother named after their father: Gordon Johson II, who married a certain Francine Bowen

If you want it in a family tree:

Charlotte Warren + [Unknown]
|
Melinda Warren + [Unknown]
|
Prudence Warren + [Unknown]
|
Herbert | Clarence | Milton | Astrid | Helena | Laura | Grace | Brianna (unknown order)
|
P. Russell’s parents | P. Baxter’s parents | P. Bowen’s parents
| | |
P. Russel | P. Baxter + Gordon Johnson | P. Bowen
|
Penelope Johnson + Jack Halliwell – Gordon Johnson II + Francine Bowen
|
You know the rest

+ = married to
| = spawned
– = sibling to
(Sorry, I was too lazy to search the dates...)

N.B. Since neither Patty nor Grams ever had a sister, it is assumed that whom both Patty and the girls named "Aunt" Phoebe and "Aunt" Pearl must be distant relatives but not distant enough that they wouldn't have been able to know them. Patty would have known her Grandma's cousins, at least the one who wasn't killed by the other two so since she deems "Aunt" Phoebe her favorite, in my fic, I named P. Bowen Phoebe and, matter-of-factly P. Russell became Pearl.

I think that's all I can say about our girls' folks, and please forgive me if it's too long a rant

N.B.2: Please don't call me an encyclopedia :$

Oh, and Tash, all of this was stated in the show well after season 1, the family tree itself being only seen for the first time (of two) in season 2. The only family ever spoken of in season 1 are Melinda, her daughter Prudence, the aunt who is manic and cousin who's a drunk (probably from Victor's side), Brianna the War Lord basher, and that's about all if I am not mistaken. So really, you're once again free to do as you want

PS: If you want clear references as to where I know this from, say it, I'll tell you what episode everything comes from.

[Nerf]

Here's a question.... does a past life have to be an ancestor of the one in question? I don't know if it was ever explicitly stated that one had to be related to their past life. I think it makes more sense that one wouldn't have to be...

[Quadquetra]

I wouldnt think so Nerf i mean as far as we know the Evil Enchantress wasn't related to Paige and Dans not related to the girls so probably not.

[Terry]

Sept 1, 2009 20:46:09 GMT Nerf said:

Here's a question.... does a past life have to be an ancestor of the one in question? I don't know if it was ever explicitly stated that one had to be related to their past life. I think it makes more sense that one wouldn't have to be...

It was never stated but I don't think they would, like Jeff said about the Evil Enchantress, who can't be an ancestor of the girls, since Melinda's clearly stated as the first magical witch of the line and the Enchantress, as far as we know, lived long before her time.

Sept 1, 2009 22:23:55 GMT Quadquetra said:

(...) and Dans not related to the girls so probably not.

Yep, he's not related to them, he was only "attracted" to Piper because he's the reincarnation of their great-grandfather, who was Piper's past life's husband.

So, Ian, what you can probably guess is that, around the Evil Enchantress's time, there might have been past Phoebe, Piper and maybe even Prue around. Aha, could make for a spin-off

[Reyn]

This past lives talk is interesting!

Terry - you absolutely rock! Thank you so much for all that information - it will definitely help me out! As to the episodes - I know there was a bit of information about the Manor being rebuilt and used for the first time by the family around 1906 (which I think was in "Is There A Woogy In The House" and the Brianna reference was in the episode where Prue accidentally clones herself? Brandon mentioned that she was around in the 1850s over in Russia.

I just wanted to get everything straight in my mind so I know exactly what was covered and what time each of the ancestors were said to be living in.

Interesting point about the past lives not having to be related, Nerf. I like that! Brings up lots of new ideas...

[Terry]

Yep, Tash, it was stated in 1.15 "Is There A Woogy In The House?", and it is actually the cousin's parents who had the manor rebuilt and the Nexus reined in, making it a spot of immense power for good. And Brianna is indeed mentioned in 1.16 "Which Prue Is It, Anyway?"

And well, yeah, considering the Crimean war was fought around the 1850s, Brianna would have been there, since that's when she defeated the Lord of War ^^ So she would probably be either P. Russell or P. Bowen's grandmother (in later Charmed canon, since those two don't appear in season 1), because the Book states her face was "lined with years of wisdom" so she would already be at least elderly in the 1850s ... but Phoebe calls her their "great-great-great-aunt" so that would make her the mother of one of them, meh... *sigh*

[RJF]

Man, you guys have more bravery than I do; tackling both the Halliwell family tree and the protocol for souls in the show's mythology? Wow.

I've found that if the show doesn't give you a credible answer for something you want to include in the fanfic, then go for it as best you can. As long as your idea makes sense and ultimately relates back to something that already exists in the show, you should be fine. The show went in too many directions with the passage of souls (Past lives, reincarnation, and simply moving on to another plane.) that I don't think anyone would hold it against you for coming up with different and interesting spins on old ideas.

EDIT: I just realised this would actually make quite a good topic in itself. Haha. Removed!

[Nerf]

Wait, wait, wait. They have Russian ancestry? Because that would be perfect! Tash, you know what I'm talking about... ;D

Or was she just there in Russia? Either way, this could be very good for me.

[Temporal Death]

Well the Book stated that she (Brianna) defeated the Warlord during the Crimean War, which (according to Wiki's summary) was in Russia. So we can assume that she was. She was an aunt, so obviously they weren't directly related to her by blood.

Like Ross said, you can spin things in your favor because of their lack of continuity. After all, it is Fanficton (which still doesn't mean peasants should steal or "be inspired by" others' ideas).

[Terry]

Well, I don't believe she would be Russian. She would more likely have been on the side of the Brits. Since we know that before moving to San Francisco, the Warrens had lived in Salem, in Eastern America. So Brianna was close enough to Great Britain to feel needed in the war ... that's not counting on the fact that it was a demon that started it, which would spin her even more quickly in.

[Astral Martin]

Um, I have two questions to anyone who wants to answer:

1. Does anyone know how Magic School was created? I know Paige had mentioned the end of the story of something about a wizard or something like that. Can anyone clear that up?

2. Can demons be brought to Magic School by a witch or whitelighter?

If anyone can answer any one of the questions, it ould be HIGHLY appreciated. Thank you!

[Quadquetra]

Well im not sure about question one but maybe it was a wizard but I would assume it was the elders since they were on the council to decide magic schools fate. But on question number two I would think yes if the demon wasn't intending harm like drake wasn't and he transported himself there and he was still a demon.

[Temporal Death]

Yup, and Martin, as seem in "Styx Feet Under", evil can enter magic school by orbing. So I think it's safe to assume that a whitelighter could orb someone in with them, regardless of their morality.

[David]

Yeah, wasn't it Gideon who created Magic School? The other Elders never seemed very keen on the idea of it, so it seemed like it was always Gideon's project and something that he fought for.

[Astral Martin]

I would think yes if the demon wasn't intending harm like drake wasn't and he transported himself there and he was still a demon.

in "Styx Feet Under", evil can enter magic school by orbing. So I think it's safe to assume that a whitelighter could orb someone in with them, regardless of their morality.

Thanks, guys. That really helped clear things up a bit. So I guess I can use both modes of transportation can be used.

wasn't it Gideon who created Magic School? The other Elders never seemed very keen on the idea of it, so it seemed like it was always Gideon's project and something that he fought for.

Yeah, I know Gideon was the headmaser, but he didn't create the School. I guess he just took over X amount of years ago when the school needed a headmaster. At least I think that's what happened.

Um another quick question: Does the invincibility rule still apply in the school? What I mean is in the episode Sleepy Halliwell, wasn't there some spell that stopped death while you were there? But as we saw in season 8 episodes, demons were killed and the spell didn't apply, I guess.

Was that because they were demons or because the spell broke when Zankou entered Magic School and the demons gained entrance to it?

[RJF]

Was that because they were demons or because the spell broke when Zankou entered Magic School and the demons gained entrance to it?

Zankou seemed to permenantly shatter the school's protection when he broke in in the Season 7 finale and it wasn't fixed until the COs reclaimed the school after the show ended, by the looks of things.

[Astral Martin]

Yeah, it would make sense. Guess I can have some fun with that. All right, thanks for answering it was a great help.

[David]

I'm doing some editing of Family Magic and although Wikipedia and the Charmed Wiki cite Philippa Bowen as the mother of P. Baxter (Grams' mother) was this ever established on the show? I've given the character a different name in my fanfiction and just for the sake of continuity I wanted to know if the name Philippa Bowen was seen on the show or if it's just fan speculation.

I know it doesn't matter in the grand scheme of things but I wanted to be as accurate as possible with the jumbled Charmed history.