The Mary Sue Blues

[Reyn]

Mary Sue, sometimes shortened simply to Sue, is a pejorative term used to describe a fictional character who plays a major role in the plot on such a scale that suspension of disbelief fails due to the character's traits, skills and abilities being tenuously or inadequately justified. Such a character is particularly characterized by overly idealized and clichéd mannerisms, lacking noteworthy flaws, and primarily functioning as wish-fulfillment fantasies for their authors. Perhaps the single underlying feature of all characters described as "Mary Sues" is that they are too ostentatious for the audience's taste, or that the author seems to favor the character too highly. The author may seem to push how exceptional and wonderful the "Mary Sue" character is on his or her audience, sometimes leading the audience to dislike or even resent the character fairly quickly; such a character could be described as an "author's pet".

"Mary Sues" can be either male or female, but male characters are often dubbed "Gary Stu", "Marty Stu", or similar names. While the label "Mary Sue" itself originates from a parody of this type of character, most characters labeled "Mary Sues" by readers are not intended by authors as such.

Source: Wikipedia

After having a very brief discussion about Mary Sue characters with Es, I thought this might be an interesting topic for this forum.

Mary Sue's (or Gary Stu's) - they're the type of character no author wants to think they've created. Have you inadvertently created one? Take the original fiction mary sue litmus test to find out:

The Mary Sue Litmus Test

The test above is for original characters only.

[Temporal Death]

Well I tried the test on my Melinda. Seems she's a 28--Borderline Sue.

[simymonna]

11-20 points: The Non-Sue. Your character is a well-developed, balanced person, and is almost certainly not a Mary Sue. Congratulations!

Your Mary Sue Score: 19


I did the test with Melanie in mind

[Deleted]

Just did the test for my original character, Rori (Aurora...and most of her points came from her name and her power of retronition and the fact that I think most people would like her...), in my sorta-novel and she was a 12, so also a Non-Sue.

Funny, but my Patty Halliwell is a lot closer to being a Mary Sue than my original character is. Taking the test with her in mind, she was a 33, a border-line Sue.

But then I think a lot of the Charmed characters *are* Mary Sues/Gary Stus....Season 6-8 Piper, Chris, Wyatt and Drake are just a few who immediately come to mind. Billie is most definitely Brad Kern's Mary Sue, pushing Uber-Sue and even pushing Irredeemable Sue, which is why so few fans like her as written by Kern--Billie as written by Phoenix is a totally different story. Try taking the test with those characters in mind (as written on the show) and it's amazing how well they work out as Sues/Stus!

Oh, since I'm the one who started the Sue discussion with Reyn, I wanted to add how I first found out about "her". The first fandom I joined was Star Trek, back in the 60's, long before there was such thing as the Internet. In the late 70's, a bunch of fans put out a fanzine called "Trek", which actually helped bring Star Trek back in the form of the movies. Later the authors professionally published books called "The Best of Trek," and that's where I was introduced to "Lieutenant Mary Sue" stories. At that point, she was described as a character who either took the place of the author (although idealized...the person the author wish she could be, since more Sue-Trek fics were written by females) or represented the author's dream mate (if the fice was written by a male). Although she usually had a totally different name, she was usually the one who saved the ship through some special power of her own and then went off to have mad sex with whoever was the author's favorite character. I was more than a bit embarrassed when I found out that the fic I had just written and that I was so proud was a Lieutenant Mary Sue fic. It starred Leyla, Captain Kirk's yeoman. She was an Alphan from Alpha Centauri and had perfectly round eyes and the power of empathy, which she used to save the ship while Captain Kirk fell madly in love with her and went nuts after Leyla sacrificered herself for him and the ship and died in his arms. Sound familar to anyone who has taken the test?? Yes, I made myself sick just writing this! I took the test with Leyla in mind and she was an Uber-Sue!

[Temporal Death]

I found another litmus test, which is way simpler, and user friendly too.

www.katfeete.net/writing/marysue.html

I got to agree with Charmed characters being closer to Mary-Sues.
One of my original characters for Torn got a 20 though.

[Marshmallow]

I did the second test with Charlotte.

Charlotte is only a little like you. She isn't really very cool: she blends into crowds, she hangs out on the fringes at parties, and wearing shades after dark makes her run into things. She may have sometimes thought that she was special, or destined for greater things, but probably dismissed the idea as a fantasy. She's got no emotional scars to speak of. And she's gotten no slack from you.

In general, you care deeply about Charlotte, but you're smart enough to let her stand on her own, without burdening her with your personal fantasies or propping her up with idealization and over-dramatization. Charlotte is a healthy character with a promising career ahead of her.




Score Breakdown
I Love Her, I Let Her Go 9
You Mean Plaid Is Out? 8
I'm Destined For What? 7
Healthy as a Horse 0
Momma HATES Her! 3
Total: 27

lol at this:

or it's made clear that she could have slept with several different people, but doesn't, because she's Not That Kind Of Girl

[Temporal Death]

LMFAO. Yeah, I laughed at that.

My character got the same message as Onur's, except the first line was "[Character] is nothing like you" or something like that.

[du1387]

My character William is on the edge of the first test, but the second one says that he's totally believeable, so I guess I'm just going to try to make sure he's kept believeable.

[Astral Martin]

All right, I did the second test for my main character for a story. Here's what I got:

Benjamin is only a little like you. He is not at all cool; in fact, he thinks cool is a temperature reading, and when he says "Oh, I just put on whatever old thing's lying around," he means "on the floor, where I threw it last night - but I turned the underwear inside out first." He may have sometimes thought that he was special, or destined for greater things, but probably dismissed the idea as a fantasy. He's got no emotional scars to speak of. And you've been sparing with the free handouts: whatever he gains, he's worked for.

In general, you care deeply about Benjamin, but you're smart enough to let him stand on his own, without burdening him with your personal fantasies or propping him up with idealization and over-dramatization. Benjamin is a healthy character with a promising career ahead of him.



Score Breakdown
I Love Him, I Let Him Go 9
He's The Anti-Cool 3
I'm Destined For What? 7
Healthy as a Horse 0
Spare the Rod and Spoil the Child 4
Total: 23

Awesome! I thought that was a pretty good test. That's pretty much what I was aiming for. He was supposed to be the outcast but a very hardworker. I hope not all of my characters are Mary Sues. Thanks for posting this thread.

[LadyDisdain - Liane]

Aug 3, 2008 16:37:45 GMT Temporal Death said:

I found another litmus test, which is way simpler, and user friendly too.

www.katfeete.net/writing/marysue.html

I got to agree with Charmed characters being closer to Mary-Sues.
One of my original characters for Torn got a 20 though.

I think this test is a little better The other one was very long and I think certain things that make my characters non-mary-sues made them mary-sues if you get me...

Two of my characters scored 35...I like this "Mary-Sue" thing, it's definitely given me some points to think about. I don't think the tests are totally accurate, as they don't take certain things into account when calculating, but it's given me a good idea!

I found this thread VERY useful, so thank you! ;D