Whitelighter Woe? SPOILERS

[Terry]

Ahem. Spoilers. Not caught up? Back off.

So..... Leo Wyatt. We all know Reyn does not have him near her heart and she has actually gave him some kind of trial, in the time he left Piper. (Six months, post-alternate season 2)

What happened? We have seen that Balus has a hard time trusting Leo again (did he ever trust him, only Reyn knows lol). So I obviously think that he somehow lost a charge of his. When I asked our beloved author when the events Balus refered to happened, she said around the end of season 1. So I thought, maybe that girl that Alec the Darklighter had fallen for. But she denied that theory.

So my guess is it's either someone we might not even have known about, or one of the new guests in town. Could dear Madame E. be the charge he "lost", to evil that is? That seems farfetched, but who knows with her, huh?

Is that why it was so important for Leo to know that Piper did mean she loved him, as he said in 2.10? Because his shared love blinded him to the extent that he could no hear his charge calling?

OK, I'll stop, 'cause I feel like rambling. ;D Your turn to babble

You know, Reyn, (sorry for the little off-topicness): I would quite be able to deal with you giving Piper another soulmate (after all, there was, as of season 1, no real clues yet that they were meant together no matter what, and Piper deserves a man that doesn't put her through so much), but only if that soulmate were not Jackson (unless I have a really unlikely change of heart before the end of this season)... because Jackson = Agent and Agent = bad. And if you give bad to Piper, I'm gonna 8-liner vanquish your a$$, mwahahaha! (wow, big off-topic )

[Reyn]

It is true that I don't like the character of Leo much - but that is mainly because I was a fan of Leo the Whitelighter, and when the writers began focusing a lot on the Elder/Avatar storyline, he lost his allure to me. I always thought Leo the Whitelighter was a much more interesting concept than Leo the Uber Powerful Mystical Man.

With that said, Leo is very important to this season's plotline. As you have speculated, Balus is angry at Leo for something that happened before the beginning of the alternate season. By his own admission, what happened was one of the worst things that can happen to a whitelighter, and if Balus had his way, Leo's wings would have been clipped. And he doesn't even know the half of it.

As to your other speculations - interesting theories is all I will say! You have definitely thought a lot about this, and I very much admire that! Plus I love your speculations!

And ha! Can you imagine the backlash were I to give Piper another soulmate? Leo and Piper were 'the' charmed couple, so having Piper with another person would be a huge alternate plotline. Poor Jackson - everyone dislikes him! He's not that bad, is he?

[Deleted]

You would get absolutely no arguments from me! Piper is absolutely the WORST thing that ever happened to Leo, the way Phoebe was absolutely the worst thing that ever happened to Cole. Both Leo and Cole deserved someone SOOO much better than either of them, because both girls loved them as they WANTED the guy to be, not the way the guy actually was, and wasn't happy until they changed the guy into their dream guy, which was disastrous for the guy...both totally useless mortals.

Because I agree--once Leo became an Elder/Avatar/useless Errand Boy/Teacher that magical kids could walk all over, my favorite male character on the show became my least-favorite. It was all part of turning Charmed into its horrendous spin-off "The Perils of Poor, Poor, Pitiful Piper," which was nothing like Charmed.

So if you gave Leo a different soulmate and gave Piper a different one (but a NORMAL one, please, nothing magical, so we don't have to listen to Miss Whinealot,) it would completely totally make my day! And if Ryan ended up with Piper and Leo ended up with Phoebe and The Man ended up with Prue, I'd be one happy camper, the way I would've been a happy camper had Piper ended up with Henry, Paige with Leo and Phoebe with nobody, or (given the original Power of Three), if Prue had ended with Cole, Piper had ended up with Dan and Phoebe with Leo!

I must admit, however, that the idea that possibly ME (I also like that acronym!) could've once been Leo's charge and the fact that she went over to evil is the reason he had been kept away from Piper (distraction??) fascinates me...if that's the truth it adds a layer to the series that I've never seen before. Hmmm...eventually hooking MADAME EXECUTIVE with Leo?? Oooo! Now that I would like to see!

[Reyn]

I also didn't like the way the girls tried to 'turn' their men into the type of men they wanted, to the detriment of the guy. I've tried to focus on the lack of insight Piper especially had when it came to 'shaping' Leo into the guy she wanted him to be, rather than the guy he wanted to be. It's something i've dealt with in the first half of the series, and her character progression in the second half is very much related to her realisation about what's important in life - loving someone for who they are, or loving someone for what they could be if you changed them. Regardless, the season finale and the 2 episodes preceeding it are huge for both Piper and Leo.

And Es! Prue and The Man, Phoebe and Leo and Piper and Ryan - interesting combinations! As long as Prue isn't with Ryan, huh? Phoebe and Ryan would be an interesting combination as well - considering she originally thought he was cute. But - no love for Jackson and Piper? What would that make them? Jiper? Pipson?

Regarding the ME speculations - I like them! As to the possible Leo/ME connection - I won't say much, but I will say that ME and Leo have a scene alone together in the finale - and it's a rather poignant scene too

[Deleted]

At this point, I think Jackson is The Agent while Ryan is just a hunky guy. That's the reason I made the pairs I did. Naturally if I'm wrong, I'd do my couples differently, just so Prue gets the one who wants to do good [think Andy, think--so far (and I've only read up to Epsiode 3-)-The Man] and not just hunky. Hunky guys with no substance bore me...we got too many of those on Charmed and up to this point, that describes Ryan...very unsuitable for Prue, perfect for "I want a normal life and James Bond" Piper. And Phoebs with her love of magic and her love of innocents would be perfect for Leo, since she hasn't met Cole (or Kern) yet.

[Reyn]

Aww! Ryan has a heroic moment in the opening scene for 2.07! And before that, he has a semi "ooh what the heck" moment in 2.06. But yes I agree - until those scenes, he is just your average hunky guy. Piper may have liked him, although Jackson just as easily fits the 'nice looking, normal life guy' as well.

But I agree that the sisters were not always paired up with the 'best' guys. Leo and Piper's relationship in season 1 and some of season 3 was (for me) the best depiction of their relationship. After that it became too convoluted and messy and suffered from a 'how can we wreck their relationship this week' mentality. I don't mind watching a couple go through their ups and downs, but I prefer the problems to be within the realm of possibilities, not the 'soap opera' fare that happened in some Charmed episodes.

But back on topic - Leo has a far greater role this season than simply being 'the love interest.'

[Deleted]

That I'm glad to hear. When going through the earlier eppis and just looking for Madame E parts, I might look for his, too...*and* check out Ryan's heroic scene in 2.07. Although why Prue would stick with him *that* long, I don't know...that sounds *so* much more like Phoebe!

[Reyn]

Well, Phoebe was attracted to him at the start, although she does get her own 'love interest' in 2.04 As it's Phoebe, however, things hardly go smoothly.

[Terry]

My theory still applies; I have had no countour-hint so far BUT I wonder if he'll ever make a move to get Piper back... Grow a pair, man!

[Reyn]

Oct 6, 2009 12:24:58 GMT Terry said:

...Grow a pair, man!

Unfortunately for Leo, and to his own detriment, that is exactly what he does do.

And after he does that, things are never the same again.

[Terry]

Ack, girl, you've just given away a spoiler! Not that this isn't the right place anyway

Well, I can't really start any speculation with such non-spoilery spoiler, so meh

[Reyn]

How about this, then - if it is OK for Piper to find a soul-mate who is not Leo, is it OK for Leo to find someone whom he 'clicks' with? (oh yes, a bad pun there, considering their language)

Would Leo finding love with someone other than Piper be all right, or is he forever tied to her?

[Terry]

It is totally OK, I guess... (And ah, funny you )

I think that since they haven't really been through the whole "we're destined for each other" in your series or in season 1, then it is totally feasible. I mean, if you plan to

[Reyn]

It's weird though - because even though Piper and Leo's relationship didn't really hit the 'soulmate' status until season 2 (and therefore I could break them up and give new loves to both), having watched the show all the way until it's final season, I can't see Piper and Leo not being together. The show has tainted my perception of them, I think!

Their relationship is almost one of 'I might go out and try different relationships, but in the end I know I'm always going to come back to you.' I don't mind having them broken up for a little while, but I do think that they both know that in the end, they'll end up with one another.

Kind of like Phoebe and Arcas, you know?

[Terry]

You know, you're supposed to totally erase seasons 2 to 8 from your memory and restart from scratch Forget they were soulmates if you want to give them both another go

Was that sarcasm...?