What they shouldn't have done...

[The Matriarch]

Here is where you can basically discuss things you wish they didn't do or revealed on the show.

For me, I wish the Elders were never revealed. I like that they had an air of mystery about them. They were the ones Leo would go to for advice, the ones that were never seen but trusted. This made them mysterious & I don't know, fun to wonder about. Once they were revealed & basically seen in every second episode of season 7, I lost my interest in them.

Even though it's nice to see Patty & Grams in the episodes, I sometimes do wish that ghosts weren't that easy to summon. They should guide you from the afterlife, they shouldn't have been available to come down whenever the girls had problems. In a way, it's as if they never died, they just simply moved away & can be contacted whenever there was a problem.

What are the things you wish that they never should have done?

[Nerf]

About the Elders... I liked that we finally got to meet them. I also liked how they showed that the Elders weren't always right, or even good sometimes. What I didn't like is that at the end of S6 Leo tapped into lightning powers and then all the Elders had them. They had said for quite awhile (and very explicitly in S5) that an Elder's powers are mental, not physical. Well, they threw that out the window. I think it makes sense for them to have power, but... I don't know.

I agree that it became a little too easy to summon their dead family. It wasn't easy before S5 (and even in "Happily Ever After" Piper said she had tried to summon Grams, but it hadn't worked). The ghost had to come to them (Charmed Again was special circumstances). It just makes it harder to believe that they could never, at any point, summon Prue. But I still love those actresses, so it doesn't really bother me.

Let's see. Things they shouldn't have done. They shouldn't have had Paige quit her job at social services. After that happened, Paige's character started to flounder and become... background. Most of the time she didn't have anything to do. Then when they tried to give her stuff to do, it never lasted. Her season long witch-kick, then her random temp jobs, then becoming headmistress of Magic School, then a part time Whitelighter. The magic school thing had so much potential, but they just had her be instantly bored and never really did anything with it. Her being a Whitelighter, where she never had a charge longer than one episode (not even going to count Billie, since Paige taught her nothing) and was again bored with it right away (or that's how Rose played it, at least). When Rose had a good storyline and another actor to play off of that she had good chemistry with, she was pretty darn good. But for the most part, Paige was seriously underused and I think it started when she quit her job. The social services job had a lot of potential and made a lot of sense for her character. They should never have had her quit.

[Dark Witch.]

For the Elders, I sort of agree with Rory in the sense that it was much more exciting and more mysterious that they were unseen. They just seemed to be there afterwards, always coming to them, and though I did like that they were not always seen the brightest light, it made it that much more frightening when they were not seen, especially when Leo was taken from Piper in "Magic Hour"

As for the spirits, I thought so as well that they were summoned to much. S4 was pretty much needed, and in S5 and S7 was needed for Penny only because she was the Matriarch and needed for Wiccanings. Other times, I agree, she wasnt needed, though I did like that in "Happily Ever After".

The plotline with Paige, I do see what you are going with Nerf, but I think the point of Paige was that she was never predictable, and that they wanted her to be the superwitch, and the one who was more immersed in magic than the mortal life. I guess the plots sort of fit, but I see what you mean by her always jumping around.

As for me? I think Cole should have remained dead in S4, his character bored me to tears in S5. I really didnt like his attitude and how the great and powerful Belthazar became weak and feable even when he was about to die. So, that would be my change.

[Deleted]

Reading this topic reminded me of this. I saw it at another site and had to bring it over here. It tells all the things that I thought shouldn't have been done in a very humorous manner.

A lot of them are ones that have been debated ad nauseum, but a number of them cracked me up and a few were ones I'd never thought of before.

Most important of all, reading it brought back a lot of great memories, so I hope it does the same for all of you. Enjoy!

A NITPICKER'S GUIDE TO CHARMED
(Writer unknown)

1. One must never use magic for personal gain, unless one feels like it.

2. It is wrong to kill a human, even if said human is evil. (Morality Bites) However, if you are a Charmed One, then it's OK; kill away! (Hyde School Reunion)

3. Boo Hoo! The sisters are so sad when they think about their dead relatives. Never mind that they can summon them from the spirit world whenever they jolly well please!

4. When traveling back in time to Colonial America or Medieval Europe, language is not a problem. Everyone there talks and acts just like 21st Century Americans!

5. Rex and Hannah spent months taking over an auction house, yet they somehow forgot to include info about themselves in the company database (Wicca Envy)

6. Poor Victor, the man cannot remember his last name!

7. It was socially acceptable, so the writers had us believe, for an unmarried woman to have a baby in 1600's America (Melinda Warren and her mother, Charlotte, have the same last name. Melinda herself had a daughter, Prudence, so if Melinda had been married, she would have taken her husband's last name, this was the 17th, not the 21st Century, guys).

8. The sisters fake their deaths and assume new identities (beginning of Season Eight). Yet, they live in the same house and two of them have the same jobs. Of course, no one in the magical community is gonna catch on!

9. Homeland Security is on the case, harassing the Halliwell sisters! Osama bin Who!?

10. The sisters can summon spirits of anyone (for example, in Trial By Magic). Yet, they conveniently forget this power when a spirit could have pointed them in the right direction (like when Raynor was killing witches and making it seem like Cole did it, if the sisters had bothered to summon the spirit of one of those murdered witches, she could have easily told them that a different guy killed her).

11. Paige has this nasty habit of forgetting that she can orb things at critical times (Hyde School Reunion again).

12. No Warlock or Demon is permitted to do any evil on Earth, except in the greater San Francisco area.

13. Melinda Warren was burnt in Colonial Salem, when in fact, accused witches were hanged, not burnt. At least they got it right in All Halliwell's Eve.

14. Wicca is thrown around a lot, despite the world that Charmed takes place in seems more Christian than Wiccan at times.

15. The Elders can listen in to private conversations any time they jolly well please. Man, the Nazis and the Communists would have loved these guys!

16. The Halliwell sisters are the most powerful witches ever, yet they almost get defeated by a couple of Paris Hilton wannabes who have the combined IQ of a reconstituted Chicken McNugget!

17. Magic School! Whoa, no one will ever accuse us of ripping off the Harry Potter franchise. Great idea, Brad! (Not!)

18. Fairies, elves, and dwarves, oh my!

19. Prue cannot come visit, because it would keep the sisters from moving on. Five years later, is that excuse still viable?

20. Let's go find info about the Avatars in an Egyptian pyramid. Never mind that Avatars are a Hindu concept, not an Egyptian one!

21. When demons are vanquished, they are gone forever! Of course, this doesn't stop Barbas from coming back about five million times.

22. The Source is so clever! Instead of killing The Charmed Ones at once, when he had the opportunity and strength to do so after killing Prue, he tries to kill Inspector Cortez, who had spotted him.

23. The sisters were killed and brought back from the dead so many times, the Grim Reaper was thinking of charging a toll for each trip back.

24. When Piper and Phoebe died in previous episodes...they were always able to come back to life...yet Prue dies, and hello...they can't bring her back...just like they can't bring back Patty or Grams...or any other witch for that matter...what sense is that...were Piper and Phoebe cats in a previous life?

25. I hate Cole, no I love Cole, no, I hate him, no I love him, blah-de-blah, blah....

26. Grams was a hippie in the 60's, despite the fact that she was about twenty years too old! (Witchstock)

27. Leo bummed around the Manor in the 60's. What about the charges he was supposed to be looking after? (Witchstock again)

28. The Elders may be snoops, but when it came to supplying helpful info, they were about as useful as the old screen door on a submarine.

29. Grams went through four husbands, or was it six? I guess she got married and divorced in the spirit world. The woman cannot catch a break!

30. The spirit world has hair salons, since every time Grams comes back, her hair is different.

31. We lost another innocent! Meh, who cares? (Season Five on)

32. Hi, I'm Paige, and I had a great job as a social worker. I helped people. But I gave that up and now I walk dogs and pack fruit for a living!

33. Piper suddenly decides to open a night club, abandoning her dream of becoming a chef for no apparent reason except so the show could feature musical guest stars. Can anyone say desperate for ratings?

34. That Old Black Magic. Nuff said!

35. The sisters defeated the Ultimate Evil, for the third time (Source, Zankou, Triad)!

36. Magical powers... who needs them when you can just take off your clothes? (PhoeME aka Freebie)

37. How about that Book of Shadows? Cole couldn't touch the d@mn thing, yet one warlock managed to touch it and carry it as far as the front door. And a demon managed to steal it through a portal. Amazing!

38. Why did the Elders never send Leo after one of his non-Halliwell charges after he and Piper got married? Was that the Source's wedding present--kill off all of his other charges?

39. Cole gains godlike powers and is able to change reality. He decides to make sure he and Phoebe never break up, but instead of choosing a logical event to change (the Seer tricking him into taking the Hollow, which led to Cole becoming the Source), he chooses an event that had no bearing on his and Phoebe's relationship (Piper and Phoebe meeting Paige for the first time).

40. Duh, let's write a 100th episode that has a plot and storyline that makes absolutely no logical sense. The fans will never know. Hyuk! Hyuk! Hyuk! (see above)

41. Leo was born in 1924 and was killed in action at Guadalcanal in 1942, making him 18 when he died. Never mind that he looked far too old to be 18. Never mind that he was attending Medical School when the U.S. entered World War II (he told Piper so in Love Hurts). Either someone on the writing staff wasn't paying attention (what else was new?) or Leo was the Doogie Hauser of his time (there is no way he could have been in Med School that young).

42. Phoebe and Paige take a little jaunt through Piper and Leo's memories (Cat House). So how come they see Leo and Piper orb out when Leo recovers from the darklighter's poison, in Love Hurts, when that is not what happened (when Leo recovered, he and Piper then went downstairs to meet Daisy).

43. Why was Chris so tight-lipped sometimes about changing the future? Uh, wouldn't his whole mission in the past already be changing said future? And why did he stay for longer than a year (after all, he was conceived and born during that time) when he screwed up the lives of every person he ran into during that year?

44. Ancient beings thawed out of ice after thousands of years immediately begin to talk like 21st Century Americans!

45. Charmed Writer's Rule No. 10: When fresh out of story ideas, raid the children's section of a library. No one will ever notice!

46. Bring back the all-powerful Avatars, and then do virtually nothing with them, except having them give up way too fast!

47. Charrrrrrmmed! ARRRGHHH!

48. Make Kyra the Seer (Charisma Carpenter's character) into someone the fans can actually like, then senselessly kill her off (at least Phoebe showed emotion at her death; at this point, they no longer cared about losing innocents.) Of course, the thought of resurrecting her never crossed anyone's mind, when her character, a seer who wants to be mortal, would've made a lot better spin-off than either two snot-nosed boys with a ton of powers or two brainless blondes with a ton of powers!

49. How come Mikalya, a potential whitelighter, got to become one when she was murdered, but Joanna, another potential, didn't (when she was murdered by Zankou)?

50. Billie and Christy: WORST IDEA EVER!!! Why did they renew this show??

51. Forget Susan B. Anthony. Women owe the rights they enjoy today to some naked woman who rode a horse in the 12th Century, an event that never really happened! Can anyone say, "Alyssa takes her clothes off--up goes the ratings!"

52. Even when shrunk to doll size, your mass remains the same, so you would have the same weight. Too bad someone forgot to tell the Charmed writers this little fact.

53. So the Triad were really in charge of the Underworld. OK, so how come they seemed to defer to the Source back in S3?

54. The whitelighter Elders are supposed to be the good guys. Of course, they kill you if you don't go along with their vision of things. What's the difference between them and the avatars?

55. Once In A Blue Moon!? Whoever wrote this episode needs to be banished from Hollywood forever!

56. Do you think we'll ever learn why the Charmed Ones turned into werewolves (in a piss poor CGI effect) whenever they were on their menstrual period at the same time during a Blue Moon? Do you? Because I don't.

57. How is it that Cole can conjure an energy ball powerful enough to kill the Source, while remaining in human form . . . and yet has to change into demonic form in order to kill a fellow human/demon hybrid?

58. According to the Moron Known as Leo, Cole became automatically good when he became a human at the end of "Black As Cole". Yet, the Halliwells themselves and other characters like Tony Wong and Agent Jackman proved that one can be a monster and human at the same time.

59. "Animal Pragmatism" . . . why?

60. And why did Grams remind Prue and Piper in S3's "Just Harried" that the women in their family kept their maiden names after marriage? She used the name of Halliwell, which belonged to her first husband--her maiden name was Johnson.

61. The Avatars were so powerful that they could withstand everything Cole threw at them. However, then we were led to believe that one little potion could kill them? Oh, please (and don't even get me started on what happened to the spirit of a killed Avatar).

62. It said the Avatars were driven away centuries ago. By whom, pray tell?

63. The Charmed Ones are the most powerful witches, period! Of course, then Billie comes along with way better powers and moves that put Sydney Bristoe to shame! Give me a break!

64. Power Of Three Blondes. Another writer that needs to be shot!

65. Then we have that awful Mata Hari episode, yet another excuse to get Phoebe to act like she belongs at the Playboy Manor, instead of Halliwell Manor!

66. Mata Hari speaks with a French accent? How is that possible when her parents were Dutch colonists living on Indonesia?

67. Why did they introduce the Avatars in the first place?

[Nerf]

Oh my god.... If a person creates a 67 point list of things they don't like about Charmed, why do they even watch it?! Ugh.

[Quiet Desperation]

Nerf does have a point, Esmeralda. Altough some of the things you said were kind of true, it's over the top.

The Elders: I actually liked them. But they were very annoying. Especially in season seven. I hated how they panned the Avatars. They were also too strict and very self-centered. They think of themselves as the only very powerful force, IMO. I did not really care about them after season seven.

I totally agree with you, Nerf. They absolutely shouldn't have made Paige quit her job. It would've made Paige much more interesting. I would've loved to see a different Paige (after season four, she did change) working on that job. I wasn't a huge, huge fan of the temp jobs, but I loved how they lead her to someone whom she was meant to help. Anyways, yeah, Paige quitting her job is something they shouldn't have done.

Hmm, what else is there?...Oh, they shouldn't have written Jason out. I loved his relashonship with Phoebe. And I really liked his character. It would've been nice to see them stay together, and how Jason would be like with knowing the secret. Maybe they could've gotten married, aswell.

Another thing...Phoebe and Coop's relashonship. They fell for eachother way to quickly. They really shouldn't have done that. It would've been better to introduce Coop in the beginning of the season. Also, Paige and Henry got married to soon, aswell. But again, they only had 22 episodes (less for Coop and Henry, too). I'll come back later if I think of something.

[Nerf]

Love your avatar, Manar.

And yes! Jason! He wasn't the best character ever, but he was a good, stable relationship for Phoebe. Then they had them "take a break" and we never saw him again. I would have liked to see him return to see how he would have handled being in a relationship with her after knowing her secret.

As for Coop and Henry, I agree, but that wasn't the writers' fault. The network forced them to have a "promotable hunk" every six episodes, which I know Brad Kern hated because of things he has said in interviews and commentaries. He understood that you can't really create a good relationship in six episodes. They wouldn't have been able to introduce Coop at the beginning of the season, because he would have to leave after six episodes. Well, he wouldn't have to, but it would have been too expensive to keep him on for the whole season. It was hard enough for them to keep Ivan (Henry) for nine episodes. But I'm glad they did. While I don't really like what they did with Coop, I am really quite happy with Henry and Paige. Sure, it was rushed, but at times it didn't even feel that way. They brought in a great actor, wrote him well, and constructed a good relationship between he and Paige. I am so happy with how that relationship turned out.

Oh, and just to touch on one thing from that horrendously long list above: Barbas. I think it makes sense that he could keep coming back. He is the essence of fear, and fear can never truly go away. So I never really had any problem with him coming back. I think they changed him a little too much by the end of S6 and the beginning of S7 with him being able to flame in and out, and throw energy balls. But other than that, I enjoyed him. And with his final act being to help push Leo over the edge and kill an Elder... now that was cool. Plus his vanquish in "A Call to Arms" looked really cool. One of my favorite vanquishes (special effects wise).

[Quiet Desperation]

Thanks, Nerf. I love yours, too. Both of us are wearing Phoebe.

Back to topic, I never heard of the "promotional hunk" thing. Thanks for posting that. Boy, do I think that's stupid. How desperate was The WB? Anyways, I do agree with what you said about Henry/Ivan. I really loved his chacter and like you said, it didn't really feel rushed.

I also agree with what you said about Barbas, fear never dies. I do recall him saying that fear never dies. I really liked his character, though. He was a unique demon. I also loved that actor that protrayed him, he's creepy, makes me feel 'fear'. Haha. Anotehr thing I agree with, the writers went out of hand with expanding in Barbas' powers.

Hmm, oh, I didn't like, in season eight, Phoebe's feelings kept chaning, she's against attacking Billie and then she isn't. I do remember that that happned. But again, a girl can change her mind.

[atlan]

May 25, 2009 0:42:51 GMT Nerf said:

Oh my god.... If a person creates a 67 point list of things they don't like about Charmed, why do they even watch it?! Ugh.

I totally agree.

[Nerf]

May 25, 2009 20:18:51 GMT Quiet Desperation said:

Thanks, Nerf. I love yours, too. Both of us are wearing Phoebe.

Heh. I actually meant the one right before this one. Guess you changed it right as I was posting. But this one is nice too. Gotta love the Pheebs.

Back to topic, I never heard of the "promotional hunk" thing. Thanks for posting that. Boy, do I think that's stupid. How desperate was The WB? Anyways, I do agree with what you said about Henry/Ivan. I really loved his chacter and like you said, it didn't really feel rushed.

I also agree with what you said about Barbas, fear never dies. I do recall him saying that fear never dies. I really liked his character, though. He was a unique demon. I also loved that actor that protrayed him, he's creepy, makes me feel 'fear'.

Yeah, Brad has mentioned it several places, but the main one is in the Charmed magazine, where there was an article where he commented on every episode of S8. I loooove that article. Wish they had done that for other past seasons before the magazine ended. But another thing he mentioned is where fans were complaining about Billie having too much focus. He explained that they only got picked back up for an 8th season because of the potential of having a spin-off for Billie. So that's what they were leading up to all season and when the WB was going under and it didn't matter anymore, he said it was too late to change the focus back to the girls. But hey, doesn't matter to me. It did back then, but now I love the end of that season and think there is good focus on the girls.

About Barbas, I do like that actor as well. He is a little over the top sometimes, but certainly creepy. What I find even more creepy is that the actor once voiced Winnie the Pooh. Scary.

Hmm, oh, I didn't like, in season eight, Phoebe's feelings kept chaning, she's against attacking Billie and then she isn't. I do remember that that happned. But again, a girl can change her mind.

I never had a problem with that. I find it realistic that your feelings over something as big as that would keep changing. Doubt runs rampant in those types of issues. And especially for Phoebe, I find this true to her character. And hey, in the real world the writers realized they had them all ready to kill each other at the end of "The Jung and the Restless" so they needed to stall that a bit in "Gone With the Witches", which I think worked out very well.

[RJF]

For me, I wish the Elders were never revealed. I like that they had an air of mystery about them. They were the ones Leo would go to for advice, the ones that were never seen but trusted. This made them mysterious & I don't know, fun to wonder about. Once they were revealed & basically seen in every second episode of season 7, I lost my interest in them.

Not only did they lose their mystique, they seemed to lose everything else that made them reputable sources of good in the universe. More often than not after they appeared on screen, they were played as petty, cartoonish foils, impeding the COs for intensely stupid reasons. Not to mention the fact that all they seemed to actually do was mess with Piper and Leo. Honestly, these were the guys who were the closest to God in this show? Blech.

[Glenn]

That list is a bit funny sometimes but the person who created it must have been really bored one day

Number 37 shouldn't be on the list though because the Book of Shadows wasn't as strong in season one (when the Shapeshifter - not warlock - took it) and Abraxas moved it to an Astral plane.

I liked the Elders until they showed them. They were mystical and scary when they weren't shown. Also Magic School was the baddest idea the writers had!
Barbas was also a good character until they started to change his powers! Suddenly he could project, throw energy balls, flame out, ... I was glad they wrote him better in 7x01 after his appearance in season 5 and 6. Billy Drago is perfect for the role! I can't think of any actor better for Barbas then him.

On the Henry, Jason and Coop thing: Paige should have stayed with Kyle, after all he became a whitelighter. Coop and Phoebe are good couple, I think Jason wasn't really needed and it was a character created by TheWB to attract more viewers.

[Nerf]

Jason wasn't created to attract new viewers. He was created before then and he actually had a developed relationship with Phoebe. And lasted for about the length of a season. Leslie, Dex, Henry, and Coop were created for that reason. Along with Drake, but he was a pretty successful character. Three episodes, but well developed. Henry was also done well, too. Coop was eh, and the other two were rushed and ended badly. Jason was ended badly as well. The whole "let's just take a break, take it slow, see what happens." And we never see him again. They shouldn't have gotten rid of him like that. He owned the paper, but just disappeared.

They also shouldn't have taken away Phoebe's powers. Or had her misuse them in the first place. Or gave her empathy and had it be used in a way that didn't make sense after the first episode she had it in. It more became deflection... But again, taking away her powers and never giving them back. Hers were the least expensive. And they levitated other people after that. And in S8 they had Billie doing those huge flips. *sigh*

[Dark Witch.]

I agree with Nerf. They shouldn't have taken Phoebe's powers. I had heard before about it being something to do with not being able to pay for the effects. As for Billie's flips, she supposively did them herself in a commentary I heard in "Still Charmed and Kicking". So they wouldn't have to pay any money for the actress to do it herself.

I was okay with Jason, i think Phoebe could have actually stayed with him in the end, but in another interview (I know I hear theme alot when I am bored) she said that in real life, her and Eric Dane (Jason) had just broken up, so maybe it was another Prue vs Phoebe situation in the end?

[Nerf]

Jun 26, 2009 4:53:36 GMT Dark Witch. said:

As for Billie's flips, she supposively did them herself in a commentary I heard in "Still Charmed and Kicking". So they wouldn't have to pay any money for the actress to do it herself.

Dude, the girl was on wires. Which is what they used to have Phoebe levitate. They meant that Kaley was on the wires, they didn't use a stunt double.

And oh... Maybe it was a bad break up and Alyssa, or Eric, asked for him to be written out. Ah well.

[Glenn]

Jun 26, 2009 3:42:19 GMT Nerf said:

Jason wasn't created to attract new viewers. He was created before then and he actually had a developed relationship with Phoebe.

I meant Dex, don't know why I typed Jason

Anyway, I agree that they ended the relation ship between Jason and Phoebe badly. Maybe they should have spread it over 2 or 3 episodes. But I don't think that the break up between Alyssa and Eric would be the cause of him being written out. I think he left for another show.

[Quiet Desperation]

Alyssa and Eric were dating? I thought at that time, when Phoebe and Jason were together, Alyssa was dating Brian Krause (horiible couple, btw).

Ayways, I agree with you, Ian. They should've kept Phoebe's powers, or at least give them back after losing them. I loved her levitation power. I just loved it. I really wanted to see her levitate in seasons 7 or 8. As for the Empathy, it was pretty lame to give it to her in the begining of the season and then take it away in the end of the episodes and never give it back. Oh, ad it did look like deflection when they expanded in the Empathy power.

[Glenn]

Jun 26, 2009 14:47:09 GMT Quiet Desperation said:

Alyssa and Eric were dating? I thought at that time, when Phoebe and Jason were together, Alyssa was dating Brian Krause (horiible couple, btw).

I think they were dating during season 3 and 4 because I think Alyssa still had her blonde hair. I think they looked great as a couple.