Charmed Debates

[Phoenixlighter]

Oh, shut the hell up. Now you're just straight throwing words into my mouth as I just dropped by to comment. Honestly, if you could come off more obnoxious, just keep replying to this thread. This is when a debate no longer stays clean because stains like you target people over a topic that is hilariously not worth it. Good job though, I'm sure you'll be getting tons of people wanting to buddy-buddy you after this. But hey, now your sad self has challenged me, I guess I gotta show people how little minded you're being. You're definitely the idiot who sees one side to the coin because you can't be bothered with remembering the other side.

You most certainly are being biased.

Do tell, genius, where am I coming off biased? Was there a whole "OMFG I LOVE BILLIE SO MUCH" paragraph as a tribute to the character or was it my link to every positive youtube video under her name? Yeah, the latter must've been it. Either that, or your twelve year old ways twisted my words around.

KOing the COs which allowed a Darklighter to kill Paige's charge

If I remember correctly, this was a trial Billie used to see if she could trust the Charmed Ones by looking into their motives. And even AFTER she saw them in a negative perspective, she still was unsure about all of this. Allowing a charge to run free was terrible on her end, but just as the CO's have gone by before, "you gotta pick your battles". It's not as if Billie threw that potion, well aware that Paige had a charge to protect. So yeah, idiotic attempt number two on your end.

Casting a spell on them so they would not help the magical critters and then ambushing them in the manor and trying to kill them then.

Do me a solid. GO WATCH SEASON 8 SO YOU HAVE AN IDEA ON WHAT THE HELL YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT. Dumain did all the spell casting, Billie didn't even know until "Kill Billie Vol. 2". My God, you're just a terrible debater. Know your material.

Also, the magical community were just as fooled as Billie was. How about we dedicate the next debate in their honor?

The kidnapping of Wyatt.

No excuse on her end. Guess what? You get a point by arguing the age old point. Feel proud of yourself.

Then the showdowns at the manor where both sides were expecting enemies.

Wait, you mean the destined Ultimate Battle? The one foreseen by the Angel of Destiny? Yeah, I was awfully surprised too when the two opposite teams came together to embrace their final showdown! What WERE they THINKING? Don't they know that they can very well win a battle by keeping their distance? Oh man, that Billie (and the four others) are sooooooo silly.

This doesn't even take into account Christie's plotting to turn Billie and murder the COs, which of course makes things worse.

*Christy's.

Yeah, completely blame Billie for the Triad, Christy, and Dumain plotting to trick her. Billie definitely played the biggest role in that, apart from being the victim. You go! Another (not) point for you!

You make it sound like a random old west gunfight.

Um, no, I didn't, but okay.

In fact there was a long pattern of crime and aggression by the Jenkins against the COs.

Most of which I just defended and admitted flaw to one. I didn't do it gracefully, nor do I regret completely belittling you as deserved.

And you claim not to be biased? Not biased when you leave out most of the facts? Oh please!

Um, idiot, that's what you just did. All your facts were absent, so next time you think you're ranting like a successful debater, think twice. In the words of popular culture, you Failed. Big time. But yes, I will await your obviously poor reply and we'll keep this going for a few more pages before you realize these are opinions floating around while being threaded with accounts of what we saw happen in the show. You know, the facts?!

Good luck making me look like the dumb one! Better yet, get furious with me and cry about how I used namecalling and whatnot against you as an insult mechanism, because oh my, am I reveling in that right about now.

[Nerf]

Stop right there, Adam. If he does get furious with you, then he will be joining me in that.

I'm going to be blunt: What the hell do you think you're doing? This is a debate about the show and its characters. Feel free to get hotheaded about them. But under no circumstances are you to insult other members. He is not "a stain" upon the debate. There would be no debate if there was not an opposing side. If he, or others, brings up points that may not be fully correct, then go ahead and give your view on why you believe they are wrong. You do not call them an idiot and tell them they don't know how to debate. Right now you are showing that you do not know how to debate. You debate the topic, you do not insult the others that are taking part and you do not call them names.

Currently, I am viewing you as a stain to this debate. Insulting others may drive them away, or worse: have them fight back, letting the thread get out of hand, and causing it to be shut down. I don't want that to happen, since I have really enjoyed having some discussion going on.

This ends here. The debate will go on, but the insulting of other members will not. Atlan, please do not make a backlash post against him. Feel free to counter what he said about the debate, but do not reply with insults. As I said, that ends here. That goes for everyone. As this is a debate, you are all welcome to get passionate, and even angry about the subject. That is how things roll. But do not insult other members. Their view on the topic, sure, but not them. It will not be tolerated. If anyone does have a problem with another member, go ahead and speak to them through PM, or contact an admin and discuss the issue with them.

Continue the debate.

[atlan]

Thank you Nerf. I will not respond to his comments as I already had to restrain myself yesterday from replying to his opening shot. I have already been over most of those points anyway.

One thing I will add is this. What Billie should have done when Christie began trying to convince her the COs were evil. Now considering that her sister had been kidnapped years ago it would seem likely that Billie might research the effects kidnapping can have. Things like Stockholm Syndrome where captives come to identify with and love their captors. Or the ever popular cult programming which she should be aware of just from how many times it has been on TV.

So when her long lost sister starts telling her these things would it be more logical to think that

1 Christie is right and knows more about the COs than Billie herself does.

2 Christie has been brainwashed/traumatized or damaged by her captors mentally and needs treatment by a mental health professional.

[Dom]

What I thnk you don't understand, is that traumatization works both ways. According to the flashback sequences, Billie saw a dark shadow thing come into their room, attack her sister with claw-like hands, and take her away, all the while, she's about five years old. I think she was just glad that she had her sister back after about fifteen years. She was susceptible to the les her sister was feeding her, as she was just glad to have her back and safe.

Sorry for any typos, I'm on my iPhone.

[Nerf]

The thing about this debate is that I can so easily see both sides. Billie did some really bad stuff. But I can also see how she was turned so easily. I agree with Dom on the fact that Billie herself probably had some mental trauma going on after losing her sister. And after all those years she finally got her back. I think she would quite easily look past any weird behavior of Christy's because she didn't want to lose her again.

We also have to look at the time Christy was trying to turn her. Sure, the Charmed Ones took her in, taught her the craft, and saved her several times. But they also used their powers to escape their destiny, they tried to stop Billie more than once from protecting innocents to protect themselves. When Billie had the chance to find her sister, the Charmed Ones stopped her from doing so to make a deal with a demon to save Leo. Yes, it was more important at the time, and Billie understood that, but it is just one more little thing to use against the Charmed Ones. Not only that, but Piper attacked Billie's sister. It doesn't matter the circumstances, not to Billie, Piper attacked Christy. That shock is what truly drove Billie away from them and made her start listening to Christy.

And what would happen if we switched it around, where one of the Charmed sisters was trying to convince the other two that someone they trusted was evil? It wouldn't take much to get those two to believe, even if the other sister's claims were weak. Because they are sisters and they love and trust one another.

That is why I really love this arc. Because you can see it from both sides. Billie was made to see that the sisters were becoming corrupt, while the sisters themselves just believed that they had been fighting for so long and what they wanted, or had done, was not wrong. It is all so easily twisted, which makes it great. What makes it better is that it wasn't spells or potions that turned Billie. It was her connection to, her belief in, and her bond with her sister. That is what this show is all about. A bond between sisters.

And yes, Billie made mistakes. I don't think she can ever fully be redeemed for them. But she made mistakes and the Charmed Ones made mistakes. Which makes them real and makes them human. That is one of the reasons why I have really grown to like S8. The characters had flaws; flaws that I could easily understand. It showed human realism. If the characters were perfect, then there would be no point in watching the show.

[The Matriarch]

You have a very good argument going there, Ian. Of course Billie would be more open to believing her sister, her blood, her only family than outsiders, no matter if they are close friends . The Halliwells are the same as you stated above. If one of them believed an ally was truly evil, the other two were bound to believe & stick with their sister opposed to what others were saying. If we look back on the Cole arc from season 4, Paige believed that something wasn't right with Cole, slowly but surely Piper began to believe her & so did Phoebe. In the end, it's your family that you trust more than anyone else in the world. I know I do so I can see how Billie was so easily swayed to believe everything Christy was saying.

Another aspect I can think of is that Christy is Billie's big sister. Little sisters tend to look up to their older sibling & follow their lead. Billie has been lost & alone since Christy was taken so this is why she'd rather stand by her sister & believe her rather than alienate herself from her after finally getting Christy back.

Another thing is, the Charmed Ones, like you said Ian, did practically set themselves up to be turned against. They gave Christy & Dumain a lot to work with, a lot to help them in their quest to turn Billie against them. But like you said, season 8 introduced the human element, meaning that we all make mistakes but can we truly be held accountable for them for the rest of our lives? Isn't there a chance to make everything right & correct past wrongs?