The Writing Process

[Jake]

So I was wondering how you guys(Reyn, Rory, Adam, and Brando) prepare to write a season, episode, scene, etc. What I basically want to know is what is the process of how you plan to write these, what you do to organize everything and put it all together, and how long it takes to do this. It would be really nice to know what each of you do.

Also, feel free to move, lock, delete(and make a topic like it). I think this topic would fit better in the board with your entries, I would've put it there but I couldn't make a thread in it.

[Reyn]

I guess I'll start the ball rolling!

I do quite a lot of planning for both my episodes, each season and the larger series as a whole. This is mainly so I can place hints in episodes that relate to events which happen much later in the season (and if anyone is wondering, there are already several hints that I've dropped relating to the major big bad of season 3).

To begin, I start off with the concept of the major antagonist for the season. Then I work on their backstory, who they are as a character, and the relationships they have with other season regulars. I determine how they will be involved in each of the episode plotlines, and how their involvement relates to their wider plan. Then I move on to the episodes themselves.

Generally, I start off with a single idea that forms the basis for the episode. Mostly this is a one sentence plot hook that details the main storyline for that episode. I think about which characters will be involved in the episode, how they will be involved, and then I decide on the secondary storyline and how it will run parallel to the main storyline. I have a list of 'key events' I need to weave into the storyline which I try to incorporate as well.

I then sit down and plan out an outline, which is usually two pages long, though it can expand to be as much as 5 pages. I draft out each of the scenes to be featured in the episode, divided by act breaks. Each scene is usually a few lines long and discusses who will be in the scene, what they will be talking about, and whether this scene is important or includes hidden hints for later plot developments.

After I am happy with my general outline, I begin to write the episode. Sometimes I find that certain scenes simply don't fit where I have placed them, and I need to alter the structure of the episode, but mostly I am able to write the episode following my plan. Other times I find a scene takes a completely new direction to the way I had wanted it to take and in these instances I usually follow the scene through to it's end. I then write an alternate version of the scene following the way I had originally planned it and compare the two. The one that flows the best is left in, while the other never sees the light of day (I'll be adding some of these scenes into the bonus content forum of my series, if anyone would like to see them).

Once the episode is written, I look over it to make sure I am happy with it. Starting with the next episode (2.12) I now have a very dedicated and extremely detail-minded editor. So my process has changed somewhat, as I now have a second pair of eyes to look over my work before it is released.

That's a quick overview of my process, but I'm happy to answer any specific questions I may not have covered

[Jake]

^Thanks for that Reyn. I already had an idea for the most part on what you do when you did that interview over at Rebirth but this is even more insightful and I'm sure will help many writers out(including me.)

Now I do have two questions, which is: how did you edit before having an editor?

And: For your future seasons did you write all the outlines for each one first, before doing any episodes?

And Rory, Adam, and Brando you're not off the hook lol, I still want to here the same from you too, so get posting! Now! Okay maybe I shouldn't demand so much... I just can't help it.

[Phoenixlighter]

Oh, in nooo way am I dodging this, lol. This site wasn't created so we can show off our fan fics, but so we can help those who enjoy our series and hope to learn from us. I've just been very under the weather, and I don't mean sick. I mean that I'm under some hot ass summer weather that makes me lose the will to live, lol.

But I guarantee you, I definitely want to answer this. I'll most likely do it on the same day where I complete my entry. =P

[The Matriarch]

If people were to look at my planning they'd probably go: "WTF?"

I'm just kidding, I really have a simple way of planning. Even though many believe a title doesn't make a chapter, I sometimes build up an entire chapter just by the title. When I started planning on Matriarch I kind of outlined what I wanted to accomplish with the fic. How Piper would discover the destiny, who her big bad will be? There is also the added tension with Billie that needs to be solved as I wouldn't just wipe Billie out of it, I liked her so expect her in Matriarch soon. I wanted to introduce a new character but I also had to decide where would she fit in, who is she? What is she? All those finer details.

I can truthfully say that I don't fully plan a chapter before writing. I have the basic things that I want to happen but while writing I'll think of new things. Call it "the thinking on your toes when it comes to writing" approach.

I have two separate documents, one contains all my planning that I list under the potential title of the chapter or the simply put "Chapter 4" or whatever. The other chapter is called my official Chapter Guide where everything is perfectly typed up. The title, teaserline, synopsis & guest stars if any.

Also in my planning, I list each character & add ideas for storylines. I also have the random ideas section where I just put anything that comes to mind. Many ideas get crossed but others always come up. I have to basically sit down & say "Okay what do you want to do with this character?" or "Where does this character fit in?" I also have to take into account Piper's responsibilities & dreams. With many characters you have to build them a solid background so that they may develop into well rounded characters as the story progresses.

And it is extremely important that you know the series you are writing about very well. You need to understand the characters on a personal level, know their ins & outs, their mannerisms. Understand the magic & the rules that they must follow. You must know your background information really well to even attempt to produce a fan fic. You must have a great understanding & love for it.

My planning took some time & some help from my idea pitchers. But in the end, like they always tell me, they supply the idea but I build the chapter & I even go back to them asking them what they think. Adam hasn't seen my outline in a while so a lot has been added & changed & new ideas were incorporated that weren't there at the beginning.

My approach to writing may be different form the other writers as a whole new idea would pop into my head while writing one chapter. Sometimes my best ideas come when I don't expect it.

Some may say: "Writing isn't that hard". On the contrary, it's a huge responsibility & you need to know where you are going to make it a success. Sometimes you have low days when you have no inspiration to write whatsoever but like I always say to Adam, seeing that finished project & knowing how hard you worked on it, makes it all worth it in the end.

After a lot of listening to my editor & him teaching me writing techniques I'm proud to say that I have come a long way since my early days of writing. Basically, I didn't know a thing. It's thanks to Adam's advice that I have made my writing better, he's a kick ass editor, I'll tell you that;)

I know my answer seems a little scattered but I'm not an intense thinker like Reyn, she's more like Prue than she realizes! She has a perfect order to everything where I'm not that precise.

[Jake]

^^Lol, don't worry Adam not too much pressure, and the summer weather can kill, I live in MN so it's a milder summer, but my room is on the side where the sun sets, and were on a hill so yeah it sucks. Okay that was way off-topic.

And Rory, I like how you do yours too, it's different than Reyn's in a sense but it seems to be working generally, so what ever floats your boat(did I really just say that?) lol. I do like how both of you plan your series out a lot before you start writing. Thanks to both of you for posting. Two more to go...... I'm laughing because I know Adam really wants to post his, still waiting Adam..... and waiting...you too brando! Haha, just giving you guys crap.

[Astral Martin]

thank you jake for posting this. I needed some advide on writing good fanfics and i learned something from everything. And if you are making a fanfic based on your sig, it looks very interesting and can't wait to read it!

but i have a question as well if you dont mind. I have all these ideas in my head and i know all of them have great potential. so how do i choose?

[Jake]

Oh well I just made the thread, it is really the writers who helped us. As for all the ideas in your head I suggest starting with Reyn's idea of making an antagonist for your series and how is going to interact with each character throughout the series. As both Rory and Reyn said that in there processes for the most part. I know this question is more directed at the 4 writers here but I would suggest to re-read their posts and use that as your guide. And in no time I'm sure we'll be reading Adam and Brando's posts here so those will hopefully help you even more.

[Reyn]

ihollow, I would recommend writing all of you ideas down on a piece of paper (or in a word document on your computer) so that you have a copy of them. Print them off and have a look at each of them separately. If you have an idea of a central theme for your fan fiction, look at each of the ideas you have and see if you can incorporate them or work them around your central idea. Keep the ideas you decide not to pursue in case you can use them later on.

And I forgot to mention - love the idea of this thread, Jake!

[lexindro]

Hey, thanks for posting the way you are doing the writing ! It's really interesting. I'd say I would be closer to the Rory's way. I have a season planned, a big bad, the evolution I expect for the characters, etc...

But I often do the chapter thing, I find a name and I build the episode around it. And for the ideas and the whole planning thing, I make a chart with different entries : the episodes and the characters and I fill it, it helps me have a whole perspective litterally on the season (which now after 7 years are seasonS lol, my series is not in the Charmedverse but maybe I translate into English and post it... I don't know), anyway, thanks for sharing !

[Jake]

^^Thanks for answering Reyn. Oh I was going to ask(if you have time.) How did you edit before you had an editor?

Hmm. still waiting on Adam and Brando lol. Well I know both must be really busy so hopefully we'll hear something from them.

[Phoenixlighter]

Shadow Tales:

The Writing Process.

Alright, Jake, lay off, lol. Season 10 is finished so now I can put together more attention. As for Brando, he's going through things right now so I wouldn't expect a response for a while.

Honestly, I don't have much of a process. Ever since “Billie”, there were times where I generally just winged an episode. Actually, I'll start off with “Billie” episode 1 for example. I wasn't focused on what theme I wanted to keep with her dealing with the lost of her family, but wanted to mix the natural elements such as action. So I was basically just writing away and certain dialogue can even spark a future scene to make a connection you honestly weren't expecting. When I finished that premiere, it was nothing that I thought it would be when I first created, minus a couple of scenes I had aimed to reach initially starting.

I wouldn't suggest winging the episode to the very end, because there are times where I find myself doing that and I regret it so much. It stumps me with one of the laziest writer's blocks as I know I have to work even harder to recover from a scene and it can also make a chapter unnecessarily longer than it has to be. There's a huge difference between a well put together long chapter against a chapter that was just vomiting scenes that could've either been merged together with a previous scene. So although I basically just stated that was a method, I would honestly suggest that if you do choose to work in this fashion, you prepare yourself for it.

It's obviously a method I've adjusted to but although I don't plan the chapter scene by scene, I plan on the primary scenes I want for the general plot, along with who's taking part in the sub-plot. Also, when starting a chapter, I'll often put dialogue at the end of the chapter or something special I want to achieve by the end of the chapter, so I basically see it every time I open the file and if I did it, I erase the line. It doesn't matter what it is, having that helps you reach where you're heading with the chapter. Whether it's a joke you feel could be used for a scene, what you want to do with Paige by the end of the chapter, the manner in which you want to vanquish a demon or even a status on what Phoebe is up to that you feel should be mentioned. I've been doing it since “Billie” and it really helps me to make sure I cover all the points I was targeting to hit.

I also have a file that contains brief summaries, teaserlines, titles, and stuff to happen in the chapter as an overall W.L plot thread as to where I'm heading with the series but at this point, I'm really overwhelmed with so many plots that I have to cover so things get pushed back to my dislike, most of the time. When that happens, I can only hope that I can build a sub-plot to make up for pushing something back and even making the wait more worth it.

I'm generally quick to attack people on this, but a chapter can make a title. I just hate to no end when people make titles like, “Teenage Mutant Ninja Witches” or “8 Simple Rules to Dating my Teenage Witch” and even “Piper Pan” gets on my nerves. But the title and tagline of “Darklighter Infection” built that chapter and not one complaint, and let's be serious, Charmed did it more than once. You don't coincidentally come up with puns for 8 seasons, if you believe so, PM me so I can give you a verbal beating, lol. If you do choose to do this though, don't make “Matrix Witches” or “Billie and the Chocolate Factory”. It won't be funny, it will be uber lame, so give the chapter some class to it if you choose to build it around a title.

Here is my huge writer's flaw. I have a problem with deleting things. If I'm even proud of a joke or two used in a scene, I will try to make that crappy scene work just to keep it. Now that we have this site where we can post deleted scenes, there's a chance I'll try to work against that flaw since I'll still be able to share it with the readers who are interested to see what didn't make the cut for the chapter.

I also wanna expand on something Rory said about knowing the piece. Especially for series that are post Season 8, there is so much burden with making sure you don't contradict something in the series. Although Charmed has its fair share of glitches, as fans who actually cared to watch the episodes more than once, we've eternally claimed we know the show better and that would only contradict what we say, but considering we're all fans, there is a chance readers might be a little more lenient to forgiving you. Reyn has it lucky here, lol, considering the only thing she has to consider cannon is season 1 and whether or not she chooses to include elements of the later seasons is her choice, so the message from this is that it always depends on the timeline you're working with.

I think that should cover it for now, I'll definitely be sure to add it later since I can never get everything out at once. I'm sure I'll say something a little more useful next time around, lol, I just kinda wanna get started on my entry and this is already a page and a half. But yeah, that should do it for the moment. Feel free to fire off questions as most of you have been readers since the start and course of “Billie”.

[Jake]

^Wow, great post. And that was advice worthy, I still like how all of you guys still have those unique ways to plan and include those important pieces in each of your writing.

A question I guess I would ask all of you is do you guys pre-edit? If you do then what is the process you use to make sure you try to fix as many mistakes, and help make the chapter/episode better?

[Reyn]

I always have time!

Before I had an editor, I went through a 5 stage editing process. The first stage was my 'culling stage' where I would look through the episode, and see if there were any clear scenes I could cut out to ensure the episode stayed within its page limit. I write a lot per episode, and mostly my episodes end up being 70+ pages, meaning I have a lot of content I have to cut to keep it within the acceptable 55-60 page limit. Usually I try to condense descriptive scenes to make them more succinct, but there have been times when whole scenes have been removed. Some have been included in future episodes, others have been lost to the void, never to be seen again.

After I've reduced the episode to an acceptable page count, I go over the episode checking for spelling and tense mistakes. My biggest trouble is being tricked up with the American/British spelling for words. I am inclined to use the British way of spelling things, although mostly I change to the American as the majority of people who read the episodes are American (or they spell the words the American way).

After that I make sure the episode flows nicely and has a nice mix of action/humour/drama/mystery/romance (no mean feat!) and I read the dialogue out loud to make sure it all makes sense. I guess that would be another hint for writers - always read your dialogue out loud to make sure it makes sense when it's read. There have been a few instances where I've read out some of my dialogue, and whilst it sounded good in my head, when reading it out loud it sounded terrible. Reading it out loud is a good way to judge its appropriateness and its length.

After that I make sure there are no inconsistencies in the scene headings, time of day and character names, and then I check to make sure the pdf and html files are formatted correctly.

I do a final run through of the episode to ensure I've caught everything I can, and then it's ready to be posted.

So - editing for me was a very drawn out process!

[Phoenixlighter]

A question I guess I would ask all of you is do you guys pre-edit? If you do then what is the process you use to make sure you try to fix as many mistakes, and help make the chapter/episode better?

I read through my chapters at least 3, 4 times before posting. Even if I edit it the night before posting, I edit it one last time before I upload it to FF.Net database. And even there, some errors slip through, it's bound to happen, even if you have short chapters, but you just grow so accustomed to seeing those mistakes embedded within your chapter that you can't help but see past it. My main flaw as a writer is tenses. I get those motherf***ers mixed up, mainly because "Witchlighter" is past tense whereas S10 and "Billie" were present tense, so it was hard to escape that after being used to it for so long. But I've grown enough to see past that, but I always slip, but now I catch it.

I would really advise you make sure you're following the basic standards of writing and stay in a tense. I now know how annoying it is to read:

Piper walked into the kitchen and hands Prue a tissue then blew up the demon behind her.

Okay, that was poorly put together but whatever. It's annoying.

I agree with Reyn though. Reading the lines out loud truly helps. Reyn would know as she was the only one who pointed it out, but there is a horrible line around the end of Chapter 10 of W.L. I still laugh at how bad it was, lol, it's too funny to erase. It's just a huge run on sentence that when read aloud makes you go WTF. So take that advice and read dialogue, or even passage description aloud. It helps.

[Astral Martin]

I'm learning all new stuff on fanfiction writing from this thread. But i really do hate those title puns. it so annoying soemtimes. clever but anoying...

[RJF]

But i really do hate those title puns. it so annoying soemtimes. clever but anoying...

Oh, you aren't alone there. And some of them are just stupid. I've seen some real crappers in my time when the writer would have been much better off with just a simple, straight-to-the-point, yet poignant title. I sometimes feel that a pun can cheapen the whole material.

And wow, reading through all of your methods, I'm definitely less formal and thorough. Haha.

[Jake]

^^^Wow, you guys do have seriously good advice there on editing. I'm going to take that reading out loud thing into account seriously.

I also agree to a point on the puns, I mean sometimes they work, but like you guys have all mentioned some people have really lame ones(myself included), I have been trying to go away from those, but sometimes I like them, other times I would rather have a one word title instead. Thanks for all the advice, and that sucks that brando won't be answering yet. ^RJF I actually want to here your writing process, from what I've heard around the web, you have some pretty great fanfics out there.

I may come back with more questions on writing for you guys, so better be prepared lol.

[RJF]

RJF I actually want to here your writing process, from what I've heard around the web, you have some pretty great fanfics out there.

Sure, okay.

Like I said, I don't think I'm as formal or thorough as the others. The thing that comes closest to that kind of scrutiny for me is writing characters, and their interactions with other characters. OCs are the hardest, because it's you alone who is responsible for everything about them and you don't have seasons of the characters being on television to go on. My OCs are the ones I put the most effort into (One in particular, as some might know.) because I need to make them real, make people go, "Oh, that is such a [name] thing to do!"

Regarding plot, I, like the others, have an overall idea of where everything is going. Foreshadowing the end... I don't really like to do it, because to be honest, I don't think I'm that good at it. I can never make it subversive enough and comes across as a spoiler. But when thinking of the end, you have to know everything, and not just how the final plot will end. You have to know where every character will stand, what their state of mind will be, how they will have grown, all so you can build to it throughout the story and make the growth seem natural. The same applies to single chapters. Is there something in the previous chapter that would make Character B act in a different fashion than they usually do? How does this affect other characters? Are they acting differently? Etcetera, etc.

Also regarding plot, sometimes you just have to give in to a little whim because you think writing it will be fun. I wrote a 26 page chapter (Excluding cut scenes.) that was purely about a mystery set in a magical circus. It was a total break from the story's usual tone, totally fun to write, a great escape from the main plot, and probably my best standalone. I just enjoyed putting the characters in these off-the-wall and (hopefully) funny situations. Another thing was when I suddenly decided to write werewolves. I had originally planned the chapter to be something where a particularly big character issue is resolved, but I really wanted to do it, so I made it into a two parter so I could include both. Just give in to desires every now and then. A plan is good, but you can get a bit tired writing from one because you've known what you're going to write for so long, and that fatigue can show in your writing. If you suddenly have a burst of inspiration, use it. Your enjoyment of writing the scene or chapter will definitely come across in how good your writing of it is.

Editing? Honestly, I'm terrible at it. I hate to proofread because it slows down my writing. Haha. My crappy process is to read over a scene after I'm done, make changes where necessary, and move on. I sometimes even forget to do that because I get caught up in what I'm writing.

The subject of titles came up earlier, and I can only echo what I said. I'm not a fan of puns unless it's really good. In my final piece to the trilogy I wrote, the puns gradually died out, and the final six chapters were a little deeper and more meaningful than any other title. But of course, building a chapter around a title can be good too. I had decided ages ago I had wanted a chapter called "Euphoria" and I did it. But some times, what you want in a chapter and in a title just end up meeting by coincidence. That's what happened with the title and content in my series finale.

So, basically, my key things are these:

• Character is paramount. They're the heart of any piece. A plot can really only be enjoyed on a technical level, but the characters are where the emotions lie.
  
• Don't always have such a rigid writing process. Have an outline, sure, but most of the time, just let your inspiration lead the way. You'll produce the best work, in my experience.
  
• Don't screw up your titles.
  

EDIT: Totally forgot about this, but don't get too hung up on appearance. This applies to OCs slightly more than other aspects, but it still applies. I was appalled on c-net when I kept seeing people cast characters and churn out promotional material before a single word was written. I find it really irritating and abhorrent. That's the good thing about fan fiction! You don't have to cast your own characters straight away. Hell, I can't say I've ever really properly cast my OCs, and it's only when I was forced to. The truth is, everyone will have a different picture of the person. I have three main OCs, and I can't see any actor/actress' face playing them because I've built such a unique appearance in my head. So yeah, basically forget the bullshit, and just write. That should carry your series and not the pretty banner that introduces it.

[Jake]

^Okay another wow! one. The strange thing is I agree with all of your guys writing and stuff. I think it's because you guys all have the idea, and experience that makes each process different but still good. I really liked your advice on the promotional crap(which I have fallen subject to from time to time.)

And the casting too, I had this one character in my head, and I could never find the write actress to play her, so I settled which was disappointing as I liked the character's appearance in my head and casting an actress as her in some ways killed the character, so agree with you there.

I'm also really taking notes on making sure that I plan out series to the end. But I do like adding things in along the way and all of you seem to agree on that, so that is one thing(out of the many) that I have really learned from your posts.

So great posts to all of you. I love to here advice from more experienced writers and I be able to learn from possible mistakes or things they learned throughout the years.

I'll probably ask another question on here again, so no one is truly off the hook on this thread lol.